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TSM reddit analyst taken down by Parth – Hotline League Excerpt – Viral Trends

TSM reddit analyst taken down by Parth – Hotline League Excerpt

That’s a yikes from me dawg Follow OMENbyHP: http://twitter.com/omenbyhp Patreon: http://patreon.com/travisgafford Support: http://travisgafford.com/support.


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Comments 39

  1. While this wasn't handled well, the caller should make a reddit thread to compile all the evidence he wasn't able to produce off the of his head and then send the paper to Parth.
    I do think Parth is right to act the way he did though, it did feel like a personal attack BUT there is relevance to the callers point.

  2. After the way that Team Liquid just played at MSI, I don't want to hear any more folks trashing TSM or their management because they can't make it out of groups / to semi-finals in international events.

  3. Parth makes some good points, but he is also getting hung up on some semantic issues and clearly diverting the question. I would not call this being "taken down." The caller has a valid point that is not addressed whatsoever: if TSM has had so many more opportunities at worlds with so many different rosters, but has never had consistent success, than it could be raised that the only thread that follows through TSM is the upper levels of organization. It's actually surprising to hear Parth just attack the "logic" of this caller's argument without even seeming to consider the possibility of it. I thought he was supposed to be super smart?

  4. Wow the redditor really didn't do his research at all… Don't go on the show if you're not going to bring a valid topic, there's no point to this conversation. He makes broad blanket statements but with no substance or evidence. TSM management is the issue for them doing bad at worlds because that's the only thing that's consistent. What about Bjerg, he's consistently been on TSM? TSM had the easiest group at worlds. Doesn't know any of the othre teams in the other brackets, or in TSM's bracket. How can you go on a show, that's going to be posted on youtube for thousands to see, and talk out of your ass like this. it actually baffles me

  5. I don't get why everyone getting mad at parth here for what he's saying I don't think he did anything wrong. He basically said the truth, and everyone makes mistakes no one is perfect. As a fan of TSM just gotta pray they keep on doing better don't hurt themselves practicing too much, and hopefully one day they do good at worlds 🙂

  6. Honestly, Parth comes across as a bit of a cunt. He constantly just uses rhetoric about arguing instead of staying with the actual talking points. The whole part about TSM's group not being objectively easier than the rest was just total shit, the entire community agreed on that, TSM themselves said it at the time. If this is how he deals with confrontation then yikes.

  7. This was 100% not the "burn" that Travis and Mark thought it was. A caller didn't have all his points figured out and wasn't able to communicate his rebuttal. Both hosts jumped to assist the guest that was out of line instead of the caller. the caller had points worth mentioning, if some of the main management staff has been at a company for X amount of years and haven't shown success, but repeat failures it could be seen as a top level issue, but not like anyone in esports would understand because none of you have had actual jobs in the business world. But jesus, the way that Parth responded really shines light on his personality and insecurities. Also I thought Travis was good about making the live judgement call of when a guest goes out of line, but somehow he thought this was a zinger worthy of a clip. The difference between Hunter and Parth is that Hunter showed nothing but respect to the callers and Parth responded as if he was a entitled 10 year old boy being scolded by a stranger for the first time in his life. This is worthy of an unsubscribe to me Travis.

  8. Using basic rhetoric skills to discredit a poorly constructed opinion is not "going in". It is straight up bullying. However I do feel that caller was right. And unlike him I can argument it.
    At the start of the season I predicted that newcoming orgs that invested into players would do better than "old stronghold". Not just because of money influx but simply due to the fact that majority of new orgs showed management structure that was far superior to what TSM has shown.
    IF you watch TSM Legends you can see obvious disparity between how pro soccer team is run and how TSM is run. The roles within management are clearly poorly defined and it is best shown in the episode post worlds. There is no clear line between management and coaching stuff.
    One of the best examples for this is the fact that they had to during season completely change the identity of the team (which is referenced in one of the episodes where I think Bjerg goes on to explain their attempts to structural changes withing the game). Meaning that for half of the season they had no idea what the hell they are doing.

    Now lets talk about something else. Parth argues that all groups were equal and does what is in rhetorics called an argumentative error saying "if you can't prove x than x doesn't exist" (for example you cannot argue that god does not exist simply because you cant prove it). Lets leave subjective opinions aside (because every sentence that would start with I think that x org is better can be countered with simple "I don't think so, can you prove it" and focus on TSM goals.
    TSM main goal as said many times is to win worlds, however Parth goes on stage and argues that TSM did "just fine". That is much like Arsenal spending near 150 millions and reaching top 6. Sure it is not bad, however the investment and the goals were set much higher. It should not be viewed as "fine" but straight out failure. Why? Because the goals set were not met.
    TSM reminds me much of PSG which traditionaly wins France soccer league but cannot progress further. Does this mean that they did fine? No, their season should be viewed as failure. They won in a 4th best league in Europe but they invested in players like Neymar to bring them further.

  9. In traditional sports coaches and players are fired constantly if they do not have good competitive showings. Sometimes they are ousted in the middle of games. I believe it should be similar in Pro League. While, yes it is a bit rude to say Parth and management was the problem directly to him, Parth should have answered him without the word gymnastics.

  10. I think Travis and Mark not stepping in was the right choice. Parth was trying to defend himself, what is he really supposed to say? Everybody blames Parth and the management but nobody has a solution other than to change things up. So naturally Parth is going to defend the org and himself because let's be real when does somebody ever want to just step down. Nobody wants to admit defeat. Parth has heard it all and who knows maybe deep down he knows it's his fault but this was his chance to argue and defend himself. Also nobody truly knows all the workings of the TSM coaching and management so everybody blames Parth.

    Also the caller brought up valid points, like Parth said, but he failed to argue them effectively and it made his points look weak which causes Parth to win the argument. That is just how arguments work, Travis and Mark staying out of it, allows it to be a 1v1 and the person who can best argue their point wins. What Parth did isn't bullying, the caller couldn't argue and Parth capitalized on it. What I've seen is people saying that Parth was too aggressive and bullied this guy but in argument things get heated and the bullying was just somebody losing an argument. I think Travis and Mark felt as if Parth was getting attacked so they didn't step in to try and have more of conversation.

    That is just my opinion on this whole thing, it was entertaining to me anyways. Stuff like this will happen on talk shows.

  11. This is hard to watch. I have a couple issues here. Parth picked apart his argument and acted like a child; you could tell by his voice he was offended and upset.

    No the caller should not have asked that question and as a PROFESSIONAL(Parth?)or maybe esports is still a joke … cant tell sometimes.. he should have calmly stated without his extra antics and curse words simply state that his suggestion would be a distinct possibility of him being removed from his position if he did not preform and get TSM back to winning championships and qualifying for worlds.

    Finally, let me call in and ask him when has TSM not preformed like dog shit at worlds?? Another questions is What would TSM look like with out Bjergsen ?? It probably could very well be a mid to bot tier LCS team. Should parth get fired ???? Who knows .. but next season if they don't preform and FAIL to make it too worlds you better believe it could be an option.

  12. The caller didn't pinpoint an actual reason in why management is failing. Parth tore the arugment apart. The situation was justified. Parth attacked the question and not the person.

  13. It kinda felt like Parth was just being an ass and interrupting the caller all the time. Just got like hella mad at Parth and couldn't watch because attempting to talk while being interrupted would be so infuriating.

  14. Wait how tf are you going to argue that TSM's group wasn't an easy group? Re-watch the TSM reacts to Worlds 2017 Group Draw and everybody was really happy with their group. No Korean teams, FW weakest first seed, my opinion no contenders to even win worlds in that group, etc. That group was far from a group of death compared to other groups. Parth got way too defensive. Like sure Parth MSF did good against SKT; but that SKT roster got 3-0'd in the finals sooooo I don't think SKT is a terrible team but they definitely weren't gods at the time.

  15. LMAO look the dislikes by all the Redditors, also followed up with a huge salt mine in the comment section. You people are something else honestly, stop pretending to be intellectuals for fuck sake. Put yourselves in his shoes for one moment, this random Redditor made a statement saying the problem to all of TSM's failure is due to the management team without really backing any of it up. Basically implying that Parth has been doing a really shitty job and it's mostly his fault. Who wouldn't be piss at that? If you look on Reddit, they'll be praising a team or a player one week then proceed to bash on them the following week. If you don't think Reddit is dumb, here is one solid evidence. They upvoted Hashinshin's stupid rant and most of them agree with him on how Riot should balance their game, despite evidence of Hashinshin playing like a dumbass then blames everyone but himself. My point is Reddit is filled with pretentious fucks talking out their asses and they obviously need someone to put them back in their place once in a while.

  16. I think one of the issues that does lie on the coaching staff's shoulders is failure to enforce a serious environment on game day, there's a huge lack of gameface mentality with players constantly memeing like idiots before games — games start when you wake up, from what you eat for breakfast until the very end of the day after game review.

  17. Hey, there's a lot of comments of a particular kind* on this controversial topic already, so if you do see this Travis, I'd like to offer something different.

    Speaking from experience, it's REALLY easy to look at these comments and the Reddit reaction as "just more blind TSM hate", especially with some of the language and vitriol that tends to get mixed in with it. It's all too easy to think, "these guys are nobodies, we're the ones contributing to the scene and putting in the hard work, they don't know jack shit", but at some point that doesn't even matter. Your audience has spoken, and it's up to you guys to take both the warranted and unwarranted criticisms seriously to some extent.

    As a long-time fan of Travis and Markz, I have faith that you guys will bounce back in a way that doesn't feel like "pandering to Reddit", but rather, genuinely acknowledging what exactly went wrong here. Regardless of the caller's true intent, this is not something I'm okay with watching. The show is not mine, therefore my personal expectations mean little, but there is definitely a line that should makes viewers (and frankly, you all, the producers) uncomfortable.

    As for Parth, I'm neither a TSM fan nor TSM hater, so I'll pass for comment.

  18. TSM definitely had the easiest group last year. I believe TSM even did a reaction video were the player were so happy to be in that group. Also no Korean team. The caller definitely needed to back up his point cause it is insulting to Parth argue that TSM didn't have an easy group…

  19. Why is the burden of proof on the caller? How can a fan OBJECTIVELY answer anything. Fans can only say what they perceive when they lack so much information. The caller should've just said "I think management is the problem because it's the primary constant over years of weak international performances." It's the org's job to answer to their fans. As inarticulate as the caller was (question phrasing especially), Parth basically spat nonsense, then agreed with the caller after he left.

  20. Tbh parths statement at 4:56 is stupid, take this last worlds for instance where c9 was in a WAY harder group than tsm where they played skt, EDG, and AHQ where TSM played against Misfits, WE, and a struggling Flash Wolves. His point of saying "it was luck" is complete bull shit because c9 had a way harder group than tsm and still got out while TSM only had to win 2 games in week 2 out of the 4 to secure a spot out. This statement of "we are in a different group you cant compare us" is like saying "oh you guys had the easier side of the bracket so you got out" the best team in the world will play the very best to win the world title because the other team there also beat everyone else, to me its just ignorant to say that since it was a different (and easier group) that you cant compare them.

  21. Are these livestreamed? I would love to see the chat on the side or something, interested to see what the reactions to the questions/answers are of the pleb masses

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