The Failure of the Grey Jedi




This video serves as an addendum to The Philosophy of Kreia: A Critical Examination of Star Wars. It examines in greater detail the inner structure of Star Wars and the elusive concept of the…

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Comments 43

  1. in nature there is no good or evil…in nature things simply are….plants grow indifferent to the world and everything that surrounds them,animals are born,they eat,they reproduce,they die indifferent to anything in the world that surrounds them that doesn't directly affect them,predators are born who can only live by killing and consuming other living beings for nourishment and thus it continues for an endless amount of time never changing outside of mass outside forces and influence…nothing is done with good or ill intention nothing is done out of personal desire it all simply function by natural design perfectly
    only when you add consciousness and intelligence does good and evil arise…the desire to help others and the desire for more than what is simply needed for personal survival such is good and evil and with intelligence and consciousness comes madness things done without purpose things driven by irrational sentiments and so too come emotions things beyond mere logic
    there is no god or if there is he is not some overseer or judge but merely a force of pure creation,merely creating because that is what it does for you see if good and evil could be defined in simplest term it is simply this
    good=creating
    evil=destroying
    and thus god simply creates…there is no destiny,no intended purpose…you merely exist on a whim…you exist because something needed to exist or you were an amusing experiment to observe…to see how you would go about your existence…what would an intelligent being do with itself given free will,intelligence and consciousness…animals have no free will for you see they exist with very specific purposes and functions and are slaves to their instincts…so evil and good cannot exist for them for they exist with pre determined function and purpose into a grand planetary system,their only purpose for existing is existence itself they cannot think or feel or desire beyond primitive lusts and needs of the flesh
    only does an intelligent conscious being ponder the purpose of its own existence
    only can an intelligent being commit acts of evil for only an intelligent conscious being can desire and want and function beyond its primal needs
    there can never truly be peace in the star wars universe for the same reason there can never be peace in the real world…because you live in a chaotic universe where death exists…what is evil…murder?….on this planet animals must kill solely to survive and eat…their daily routine is killing and if they don't kill they die….even non predatory carnivorous creatures often fight and kill for mates and hierarchy…humans kill many animals as a food source despite human beings being a herbivore specie ill suited to hunt or digest meat without hunting tools and fire….but conflict will always exist…wether it be small conflict driven solely on emotion or full scale wars driven by greed,hatred or ideologies and madness as a whole…conflict will always exist…for as long as there are needs for basic survival and emotions conflict will always continue to exist in one form or another
    so what do the jedi hope to accomplish…absolute peace…not possible…not unless you change the very nature of conscious beings…and that would merely be a living death…worse than actuall death and less than a primitive beast
    so then what…if not peace then order
    do the sith not have their own kind of order
    tell me if luke and the rebellion had failed and palpatine and the sith had succeeded…would the universe have ended?would everything have died suddenly?…no…nothing would have happened except that the universe would be functioning and existing under a different order and code of rules…in fact it would seem to be the ones destroying peace in that regard were the rebellion by causing conflict and destroying…so how exactly are the jedi good or the rebellion good if they themselves are causing destruction and death as well…because of what they fight for?what are they fighting for?the republic?democracy?shallow irrelevant momentary forms of government and systems…you cannot be both a pacifist and fight for an ideal…pick one or the other…..the jedi are glorified soldiers,cops and downright babysitters that get nothing in return
    is it so wrong to be selfish,even just a little,is it wrong to use your natural born gifts to better yourself and your circumstances…is that not what people do in real life…use their natural born looks,intelligence and talents for monetary gain and position…to prosper….then why should a force user have to live so selflessly…they are more gifted than the average individual can ever be should they not be allowed to profit from their gifts and superiority ever…why must they live only for the sake of others….something that by nature is extremely unnatural in itself….its fine to use your abilities in the service of others but why is it so wrong to use your abilities for your own sake and profit at all…do cops,firemen,doctors not use their abilities both in the service of others as well as for their own profit…do they help you for free…no…then why should a jedi be expected to do so…if they wanted to they have the power to forcefully take what they want…and that is in fact what the sith do….an extreme flawed and equally unhealthy opposite to the already extremely unhealthy jedi way….both the jedi and sith way are parasitic…the sith are parasites on the rest of the universe only ever taking and never giving anything back and destroying things constantly…they are not selfish…they are sociopathic…in the jedis case….everything else becomes a parasite to them sucking them dry of everything because they are forced to be entirely selfless and serve everyone but themselves…that is as unhealthy and unnatural as being a complete sociopath…why should jedi help anyone when theyre not even allowed basic human needs and desires…why fight when you have nothing worth fighting for…how is that remotely right or humane….why not be somewhere in the middle like a normal functioning intelligent being and live a symbiotic existence…you help me one way I help you another…the very foundation for civilized societys…its ok to be a little selfish every now and then….and if a jedi were to get too selfish and fall to the "dark side"and go full blown sociopathic sith and starts murdering the shit out of people…fine…that jedi is now rogue send other jedi to hunt him down and eliminate him

  2. "There is no third way to use the Force." Well, that's a bummer. 🙁 I know that we can learn new things with the Dark Side or the Light Side, Jedi or Sith, but I just want something NEW. Wouldn't it just become a little boring with the same old thing? Oh, well…Star Wars is awesome either way.

  3. ….why did the republic or the many governments not ban the use of the force? I mean for fucks sake you’d think after endless centuries of Jedi and sith destroying galaxy peace that they’d genocide both sides

  4. A brilliant video, echos most of my thoughts and understandings of the Force. "Balance" is so misunderstood in the SW fandom. And I feel the new movies (mainly TLJ) have catered that that misunderstanding/made by people who are under such misunderstanding.

    The only parts I disagree with are the emotions being bad or inherently leading to the darkside, but rather it's "negative emotions", at least explained in the OT by Yoda in Empire. "Anger, fear aggression, the darkside are they". And a Jedi could feel those things, so long as they did not "channel these emotions into their power" causing them to tap into darkside energy.

    After all, to be "good" one must feel emotion also, the desire to do the right thing, or else you are a robot.. apathetic. Really, I see it possible to be a Jedi with emotions, but just not giving into them to dictate ones actions with bias, or to empower their Force abilities, but other than that, could express these emotions, love, desire etc, in every day life. The PT era Jedi became too dogmatic in the sense that the went to the extreme and just "banned emotions" altogether. But I blame this on GL's writing and not being in continuity with the original trilogy, where Jedi could have emotions, love and so on, the Jedi way was to not give into "hatred, anger and fear" when it came to "using" the Force, but they could channel love and compassion into using the Force (such as healing someone, or saving someone from evil). Without fear, love, compassion one does not have the motivation to protect the innocent or fight evil and thus one would become the opposite of a guardian of peace and justice, but rather an emotionless and stagnant person.

    To me the Jedi code of suppressing personal desires and emotions, one would become just as apathetic as a grey Jedi described in the video. They'd have no desires to do anything. (Take example of Buddhist monks who die during mediation, or even some who mummify themselves in such a state, because they suppress so much ego and self care that they even lose or no longer want the will to live, let alone help anyone else. To me such philosophy is delusional, they claim ego is lost, when really they feed their ego the whole time by submitting to the "desire to let go of all desires and selfishness" and thus just become a person who "wants to be empty" and hermit like, which ultimately is an act of selfishness as you consider nobody else in life. "Wanting anything" comes from ego (self desires) according to the philosophy and thus nobody truly ever achieves the Buddhist ideal because they literally can't, that's a law of nature. To let go of a desire to to replace it with another desire. "A desire" to let go of a desire.) However one 'can' have personal desires and be selfless, as personal desire =/= selfishness (which is the flaw of the Jedi teaching and Buddhism that they teach they 'are' equal).

    I've always just seen the Force as the energy that binds all life (which naturally includes emotions of beings too) and the Darkside as an unnatural cancerous entity. Using the Force/light means connecting with it, not using aggressive or negative emotions when tapping into and applying that power. It's the long road however. Where as the Darkside is the quick road to power, and comes from wielding the Force via channeling and expressing one's fears, aggression and anger with that power.

    I see it as possible to have one's cake and eat it. To use the Force for personal motivations but when it comes to actually "tapping into the power" to not use one's negative emotions to do it, even though they were motivated to act by emotions initially (e.g saving someone they love). People mislabel selfishness and desire and see them as one thing. If I am passionate for my partner, and want to save her.. and put my life on the line to rescuer her, is that not selfless? An expression of love for someone else other than myself? To not want to lose someone, I do not see as greed (as Yoda put it). To make such a statement is to say all desire is selfishness, but selfishness by definition is to think of the self at the "expense" of others, which really is what the Jedi do by suppressing their emotions for others.

    If you told someone you had the power to save your partner or family from a sickness.. and but did not because you wanted to be "unselfish", you'd be seen as a psychopath. One really cannot give up the ego or desire. Suppressing the ego and desire.. is a desire within it's self. It's a contradictory system.

    Luke's love for his father saved him and Vader. Rather than suppressing his feelings for his father he embraced them. Emotions are a two edged sword. Can be used against you, and in support. The teachings should be to embrace love, attachments and compassion, whilst not giving into hatred, passion and anger.

    "Controlling your passions while being in love… that's what they should teach you to beware. But love itself will save you… not condemn you." ― Jolee Bindo

  5. I rather be like Rebels Ahsoka, alittle bit towards the side of the Jedi, but abit more "alive/humane" (or something along those lines). Unfortunately I do not know if there is a shorter name for jedi who leaves the order and has more freedom in emotions (even if its alittle). So instead of following on what others think a grey Jedi is, I personally believe that a grey jedi should have been like Rebels Ahsoka. A Jedi who left the order yet still fights for good, but still has emotions, compassion, sympathy, grief, but has not turned to the dark side. Until there is a shorter name (which will likely never happen) I will continue to use the name of grey jedi for force users who seem more, again "alive/humane". Also sorry if this is confusing, even I have trouble explaining it.

  6. I think that is a bit harsh calling Grey Jedi "cowards". You are but ONE person and you cannot challenge or change a system by yourself. You only bring hardship and pain to yourself as people abandon you in favour of the majority. The Grey Jedi choose to live OUTSIDE of that, they refuse to be pawns to the Force.

    The Force, in my opinion is one of manipulation, a soulless, careless entity that affects others without their knowledge or consent. I agreed solely with what Kreia was trying to do, destroying the Force and denying EVERYONE that power, would save that Galaxy and bring peace to it.

    The only true enemy in Star Wars IS the Force.

  7. why can't the jedi just accept that there is darkness within them? and why can't the sith realize the there is light within them? This is a concept that few realize,and it is a relatively cruel reality in star wars.

  8. So the truth is that the Only truly gray Jedi are the ones who find balance in the duality of the force but are willing to give up the powers of the force. To have power but be willing to go without it and to share the knowledge they have with any who can benefit from it. To be selfless and passionate, to be completely immersed in the force but are willing to give it up in an instant

  9. If there were more grey jedi present, then none of the major catastrophes in star wars would have occurred. What a shame they haven't actually been covered in cinema, such a fantastic idea, but Disney thinks we want to see the same stuff throughout every movie.

  10. Nice video. This was a step down in quality from the Kreia one, though many have already mentioned my specific criticisms of it and I'm also a lazy fuck so I won't get into it. Still a good one and well worth the time I spent watching when you first released it.

  11. People don't want there to be a middle because they don't want people to possibly overshadow the Jedi or Sith, because they feel that Star Wars will end. But hell technically Star Wars has killed itself because of having no Grey or middle. Because you can only do Good vs Evil for so long. You need another concept, another avenue to keep Star Wars going.

    But I also think however, people get caught up in the word Grey Jedi and not the actual concept. Being in the middle… Realizing that the far extreme of the Jedi doesn't work but the far extreme of the Sith definitely doesn't work. Balance in Star Wars may not work the same in our universe but to think that it could never happen is a fallacy in itself.

    Because to me "Light" and "Dark" are only concepts to human understanding, but the Force to me is beyond that. The Force to me is Universal Concept that is beyond "Good" and "Evil" and however you choose to wield it, depends on your choices, not what anyone else deems as "Good" or "Evil".

  12. Or you could fight both extremes and argue for the existence of balance within one's self.

    Arguing that over generations, this method would lead to the resurgence of the extremes so is pointless is just as apathetic as doing nothing about acted evil.

    The Jedi are extremists and Zealots, just as the Sith are. Just because they're a more palatable extreme than the Sith doesn't make them any less wrong.

    You can recognise the dichotomy of good and evil from the perspective of common life without picking an extreme.

    The only force user that would be truly enlightened would be one that accepts his shadow self but tries to rise above it, rather than suppress it. Emotion and connection to those around you aren't weaknesses, they tether you to life. Disconnecting yourself from those around you isn't a strength either.

  13. Look I think we're all making good points in the comments but I think the discussion suffers because few people have acknowledged that this video is featured in itself at 10:10 and I feel it's really important we acknowledge that

  14. Technology is part of nature. Its not just trees, herds of buffaloes, or even a field of wheat. Nature is everything. Skyscrapers are part of nature, cities are part of nature, even nuclear bombs are part of nature. Nature is the universe.

  15. And how is disconnection from bias and ridding oneself of ego not apathy? The force users create worse wars than any. To me, gray is gentle adaptability born from a vulnerability to everything around you over the harsh extremism of purging oneself either of humanity or of self. Both self and humanity are needed in cooperation with each other. A treaty of disagreement between the two, like the one seen in the movies Day Watch and Night Watch, is the only end of the wars between Sith and Jedi. Grey is not necessarily in the middle, it's just not at the very extreme end either way, selflessness with a healthy concept of self, selfishness with a chivalrous consideration of others (remember the knights of medieval times were not the goody two shoes monks). That's more coloured than grey, it's soft rather than bold. Ironically it's perhaps more zen than the light side always forcing it's way into others business changing the world for good.

  16. I like the Sith more in my eyes there more real more human and I don't believe the dark side is evil I believe it's more powerful but I do think you should training the light to for healing purposes because the dark side isn't the best at that but you weaken yourself a little bit but through the light you keep yourself alive longer so there's always a chance to learn more

  17. I think where i differ regarding the grey Jedi is that if they can be what you posit them to be, without falling into temptation regarding their attachments, theirs is the best option philosophically. The question is then getting them to move effectively without the fall so they are useful and not stagnant.

  18. The main difference between a jedi and a sith is that the sith seeks to control the force while the jedi submit themselves to it's will.
    the sith turn on each other to insure that the strongest always rule.
    it's social Darwinism .

  19. Very good video. The only thing that's confusing me is the use of the term "ego". Shouldn't the Jedi be suppressing their ids? I thought the ego was the middle ground of your id and superego, where you try to achieve your desires and impulses (what the id wants) in a way that's socially acceptable (morals dictated by superego).

  20. Fantastic video! I predict that I will think long about these things as many of my thoughts and preconceptions were shattered. I must admit though it feels hard to not be apathetic.

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